Empathy - Missing in Engineers. Then, Why Think Like a User?

I did not know about the word 'empathy' in English.  I heard it for first time 15 years back.  This does not mean, I did not have or express or share the empathy.  

We engineers talk about empathy to the users when building the software.  That is, think like a user.  If you are a test engineer, testing, then you should have heard this.  And, you should have asked yourself -- "How will the user feel with this?".  Did you?

When you write a bug report or any test report, you think and ask yourself, "Can this be easily understood by the reader?".  Won't you?

You are having the thought and an emotion of empathy in that thought and question!

How's the Empathy of Engineers for Engineers?

Anytime, you asked these questions to you?  What do your voice say?

1. Do I truly listen to my colleague and peers?
2. Do I document?
• How well and lean I document so that fellow engineers can use it?
• Can they use it in my absence?  Does it serve?
• For example, 
• How well I name the variables, so that, someone who is reading my code can make sense out of it?  This is empathy to your colleagues.
• How well I write the test engineering related testware, so that, it serves my fellow test engineers and others?  This is empathy to your fellow testers.
• Before thinking like a user, think -- How my fellow testers feel for using your work and communication?
3. Do I consider how my words and behavior affect the people I work and collaborate with?
4. Do I listen and respect my colleagues and peers view while I discuss and share my perspective when it differs?
• Am I ready to accept the same treatment and communication that I share with others?
• Do I share and communicate my perspective and intent for first?
5. How do I interpret other person's understanding and thought about a subject, work and practice?

If you are a programmer, 

Ask yourself when and how you respected your fellow programmer and testers thoughts and work?

If you are a tester, 

Ask yourself when and how you respected and listened to your fellow testers word and work?

If you are a manager or director or VP or CxO role person for engineers, 

Ask yourself, when was the last time you listened and tried to understand the words and thoughts of your programmers, testers and other roles?  How did you listen and communicate?

• How did you help your teams and a team member to understand your point?
• Did you consider one of your team members as your team?
• Did you say anytime, she/he knows better than you, to any of your team member?
• Did this end or impact the communication thereon between you two?
• Further, ask yourself and list out the incidents that you could have avoided a situation and communicated well with dignity?

It is easy to say the slogan, "Think like a user".  

It is much easier to say this to your testing team.

But, it is not easy to think from the point of your colleague or peer.

Why?

What stops you?

Empathy Starts Within - A Message to Engineering Leaders

As leaders, we often say,

"Think like the user."

It is a powerful principle.

But, here is the question.

"Do you think like your engineers?"

You hired your engineers by conversing with them.  What are your efforts to make your engineers understand your thinking?  What's your principle on this?

If you cannot think and respond to the point views of your colleague or peer or team, how can you think and build the software system for a user?  Yet, say from decades, "Think like a user"!

Let me ask this.  Anytime, you tried to impose or overrule the testing team's thoughts, pain, voice and perspectives?  Or, did you talk to them to understand it and then shared why it should be the way you are deciding?  

Did you think as your test engineers and test team?  And, you want them to think like a user?  How?  

I'm not saying to agree and acknowledge to whatever the test team say and ask.  But, are you aware that, you work with test teams?  They are one among who consumes your decisions and work to deliver as a team.   What's your empathy to them?  Also reflect on what's your empathy to other teams?

If you cannot communicate well and help them understand your points and need of the business, then, how effectively as a team can we deliver value to the users who buys the service of the business?

When no empathy to fellow engineers on the team by an engineer, and, by the one who is heading the engineering teams, how can one have and express the empathy for the users who buys the service of the business?

Do you have the empathy for the engineers in your team?

Do you have the empathy for the teams you lead?

What is empathy?  What is your empathy?

I understand, in the business and with an executive role in business, empathy has scale.  What's your empathy scale for your engineers?

To end here for now, before the users, let your engineers and teams experience your empathy.

 

Give a Name for the Base64 Image in an Extent Report

 

I read the below question in Testing Mini Bytes community.

Hi All, I am using extents reports in my c# automation framework. I am trying to attach the screenshot but it is always showing with name as base64img. Any idea how to overwrite that base64img to customised text?

Capturing a Screenshot in the Test Run

With the Extent report, one can capture the image of screen during the test run.  This capture can be on certain condition or state being met.  That is, it can be -- on fail of a particular action; in a transition between the states; etc.

In an Extent report, when the image is captured as Base64 image and the thumbnail is set to false, the images captured will have name "base64img".  Clicking on this, I see the respective image.  

No Customized Text as Name for Base64 Image

Say, a Extent report has 10 images captured as Base64 image with thumbnail false.  All these 10 different images will have the same name -- base64img.

• This can be more chaotic to interpret when a test run has captured more than one Base64 image, and, all have the same name -- base64img.
• Do you see that? 
• How do you know what is that image without opening it just by reading base64img?
• That's hard and you have to make additional clicks to know what is in each image!
• Is this a better use of time of you who is reading the Extent report?

Naming the Base64 Image in an Extent Report

I see, the semantics in C# should also be similar to what I'm sharing below.  

The above gist should help to have a customized text given for each captured Base64 image.

In this case, the captured Base64 image name will be the customized text "Resend_OTP_Button_Not_Available" and not base64img.  This makes it more contextual and relatable for the reader of an Extent report.

Monetary Value Round Off -- A Legal and Business Problem

 

I read a blog post from Gaurav Khurana suggesting on round off of a number having decimals.  This is the post.  What made me curious is that number and what it meant.  It was a discount money having decimals.  Here, the number of decimals was not restricted to two.

Gaurav, said, it is a better experience if that discount amount is restricted to two decimals and rounded up.  Initially, I see, this is a fair expectation.

Here is the pic of a bill which Gaurav has shared.  I'm using it here on his permission.

I woke all of a sudden at 2:18 AM today, and I relooked into the post and that value whose decimal is not restricted.  I said myself there is something which cannot be rounded up or rounded down here and I could interpret it for a context.

Interpretation of the Value and its Meaning

1. The "Bank Discount" showed the below amount
• - 450.90999998999996
2. The amount is in Indian Rupees
3. This amount tells, it is the discount offered by the Bank on that transaction
4. On round up, it will be,
• - 450.91
5. If I use the round up value, then the "Balance Paid" amount will be,
• 4,058.18
6. If I do not use the round up value, then the "Balance Paid" amount is still,
• 4,058.18
7. If I do not use the decimal values in "Bank Discount", then Balance Paid is,
• 4,059.09
• That is, I will have to pay 0.91 rupee (91 paisa) more.
• In this case, someone is at loss.  Who?
• Business?
• Customer?
• In the context of this bill, it is, customer who is paying.
• Customer will pay 91 paisa, which is, almost one rupee more.
• Now, imagine, the profit which business makes from all its customers for not having that decimal values in the amount!
• Is this right?

The meaning and value of Balance Paid is not affected, in both cases, that is,

• When I use Bank Discount value as is with decimals.
• Or, When rounded up with two decimals.

My question is,

We should have check on decimals shown and used.  But, should we round up the number when it is of monetary significance and value?

Why I have this question?

• Refer to the below examples.
• 450.35
• On round up, it will be 450.5
• 450.55
• On round up, it will be 451

If observed, on round up, the amount discounted is in excess by 0.15 rupee, that is, 15 paisa; and, in the case-2, it is in excess by 0.5 rupee, that is, 50 paisa.

If the bank loses these paisa for each transactions of same customer and other customers, won't the bank is shelling out the money?  Is this good?

Likewise, if I have to pay 0.15 paisa and 0.50 paisa, am I not paying more?  Then, imagine the big amount that business is making by rounding up a monetary number and making its customer pay in excess.

My Thoughts on Monetary Value Round Off

1. The monetary value should not be rounded up or rounded down.  
1. But, it can have a decimals and limited to two or to what business sees manageable.
• As Gaurav said, decimal to two digits makes life easier for all is my understanding.
2. The customer need to see this monetary value.
2. The generated bill or transaction should have this detail.
3. When making a payment, the billing system, can show a round off value.
1. And, the business should decide upon, should the amount be round up or round down

May be to avoid such arguments and discussions in the billing counter, today, the bill amount will be a whole number and not a number with decimal.

Such round up instances can turn to a legal problems for the business.

I have noticed, the business offering round down on a monetary value, at times.  Also, I have noticed, certain consumer mobile apps showing rounded up number without breaking down the bill details.

Whatever, as a Test Engineer, I and you, have to create a report [ticket] for product's reference; keep the stakeholders informed of such behavior in the system by explaining the impact to business in monetary and legal aspects.

Solution Approach - How to Automate to Use the Magic Link for Login?

 

The question asked in The Test Chat community on 14th June 2025 22:42,

Hi All,
Has anyone implemented test automation for an application that uses a magic link for login?
If yes, could you please share the approach you followed?
Thanks in advance🙏🙏

My Analysis and Understanding

1. The question asked is around automation.
2. That is, how to automate to use the link (hypertext) generated for login.
3. There are several ways to approach this, via
1. GUI
2. API
3. Combination of GUI and API
4. I prefer to use it in combination of GUI and API for first without using any email client services and app.
• Why?
• I want to keep it simple, quick and not to complicate the testing problems much more.

Solution and Approach

I see, it is not a complicated Test Engineering problem unless the project and floor do not support.

I understand, it is about using a link (hypertext) to login into a application via automation.

How do you get this hypertext?

• It should be generated somewhere within the system's boundary.
• Can you get that generated hypertext without using any mail client and its service points? How?
• Do you have an endpoint that generates this hypertext?
• If so, then this endpoint should also have some means to share the generated hypertext for login request?
• Pick this generated hypertext via an API request in your automation.
• This should work!  Unless the test goal in the automation is not to open some configured mail client and read the received mail.
• But, how many times will you do this in automation, if the goal is to open configured mail client?
• Is this a good use of automation?

If there is an endpoint to GET that generated hypertext (POST), it is a fair simple task.  

Say, there is no endpoint with GET request to give the generated hypertext. Then, look at the response payload of POST request that generates the login hypertext.   Consume this hypertext now and use it in GUI automation to login.  Say, there is no response payload in POST request.  Ask your team to build a GET request to consume internally and maintain it securely so that no external access is allowed.

Let us keep the testing problems simple!

 

Solution Approach - Blog Posts Series

 

I read questions and challenges shared in the Software Testing communities.  I try my best to assist in the ways I can.  

While I do this, I share the solutions and how to approach the solution.  

• I see, this solution approach is good to be here as well.  
• So that, it can serve as a reference to the readers who come to Testing Garage.
• To make this happen, I will be sharing the blog posts with the question asked and possible solution to it, under the tag label "Solution and Approach".

If there is any follow-up discussion by the community and the person who asked the question, I will share those detail in the comment section of the same post.

It will be a simple and quick read blog posts for you, most times.

Have a good time reading, analyzing, debugging and challenging the solution and approaches I share.

In Memory of Sridhar Venkannachar -- My Engineering Manager

In this post, I want to tell you about Sridhar Venkannachar.  When I started my career, he was my Engineering Manager.

Today, we see more Engineering Manager roles on the floor.  But then in the 2000s, it was the role one got on delivering the staff and principal architect roles.

I see, the managers and lead engineers do not get appreciated by their teams and business units in open and public.  Or, it is not a everyday experience is what I learn.  To all this, Sridhar is an exception.  

It has been 19 years to this date, since I knew him.  I have never heard anyone speaking something lousy or not the good about him.

He passed away on 09th June 2025 around 10 PM IST.  He was driving back from an engagement ceremony along with his wife.  He experienced the sudden chest pain and tried to stop the car by slowing it down.  He could not stop; but, he slowed down by hitting it to the median (divider) in the road, so that, others on the road do not get hurt.  No one is injured on the road and neither his wife.  The passers on the road tried to help and revive him, but, by then he had collapsed to a massive heart attack.  Last month he had his complete health check and the reports said all good.  He had no blood pressure, diabetes and any other medical conditions.  This massive heart attack came all of sudden to him.  

What Makes Him Distinct and "Our Engineering Manager"?

1. He has the smile no matter what the situation is on the floor.
2. He is healthy, fit, and agile with a dynamic personality.
3. His calmness irrespective of the problems being solved.
4. He makes sure his team and people do not go through needless stress and anxiety.
5. He embraces uncertainty and he is beside the team and people in getting the certainty of the context.
6. He solves the problems and helped to solve the problems.
7. He asked the status as, "Did you get a chance to have a look at it?"
8. He asked, "How can I help you?"
9. He never stepped up saying I will solve and do everything.
• Instead, he gave the engineers an opportunity to pick new challenges and responsibilities.
• He mentored them to deliver the solutions to the challenges.
10. He came to my cabin, and asked, "Do you have any questions? Let me know! I'm waiting for them.".
11. He is a people manager.
• People approached him though he was a technical and engineering person.
12. I knocked his door whenever I had a technical doubts and questions in the tech stack and projects.
13. He said, "I'm waiting for what you will be reporting. Take your time.  I'm curious to know what you bring now!"
14. He consistently strengthened the engineering practice and culture on the floor.
15. He listened and gave importance to the discussions, unit testing, testing and opinions of the programmers and testers.
16. When I ran automation overnight in the lab, he came to lab and sat beside me to know how the automation run is able to identifying the performance glitches.
• He wanted to know and paired along with me to investigate and debug the Out Of Memory incidents and growing heaps.
17.  I never felt he is superior. 
• Instead, I felt, I can always go to him or he will come to me when he see, I need him.  The same was the experience to any others and for the seniors in the org.
18. His people skills and tech skills are of high standards that has set me an example and one of the benchmarks.
19. He invited the testing team for the project, tech and release discussions and he expected that we were part of it.  He looked in deep attention and keen for our inputs and thoughts.
20. I never knew about Agile in 2008.  It was the starting days of Agile Methodologies and practice.
1. He use to talk, read, explore and implemented its practice.  I asked him, what it is.  He explained it in gist.
21. I felt, the team can play and have fun with laughter and smile.
• He did that and said the team to have fun and be cheerful.
• He made sure, he said what is expected and how we have to work along to deliver it.
22. I did not see a day where he was shouting or yelling or blaming.
• Instead, he listened, spoke with calmness and smile, and helped the engineers to solve the problem.
• He never showed unhealthy emotions, expressions and language despite being in that role.
23. Till a few months back, he gave a call and asked,
• How will you test and automate by giving an alternate example of a problem?
• How you test architect to solve this problem?
• How will you test this engineering work with these tech stacks?
• How will you go layers down into these hardware, OS, network and what will you learn to test here?
24. While he himself being an amazing software engineer and skilled architect, he asked and listened to a Test Engineer.  He made notes of the discussion.
25. He remained as a student till this day.
    

I can keep listing about him.  It does not end!  But, I pause here, for now.

Those discussions about CORBA and Messaging, and, the hardware interfaces keeps buzzing in my ear to this day.

He came to my cabin and looked at the poster "Testing Garage" below my name.  And, he further looked into my planners and read them.  He always said, I read your debugging and bug reports.  He never missed to respond for the overnight automation run reports, where I marked, the vitalities showing variations.  Such encouragement and support from him made me to practice software testing with enthusiasm. 

He never spoke ill or low about the Testing or Testers or any others.  As a result, my starting days of testing got its nourishment and support I needed to build the skills.

His legacy will live on!  

I heard the same today from the entire Datacard Software India people, irrespective of their roles.  Today, none of us work in the same org, yet, everyone shared about their relationship with him and how beautiful it is!  Note that, all spoke more about the beautiful relationship.

We both worked on the memory, heap size and objects for months.  Today, I write a "in the memory ..." blog post for him.

I wish, we all find and work at least with one such manager in our career span.  He or she will let us know and learn how to treat one with dignity, respects and values for first along with professionalism.

Today, I was able to glimpse him for one last time.  I thank the universe for this.

Dear Sir,

You will be in my memories and work.  

I know how heavy it is to your family, when we can see it, in us.

Your footmarks will be there for all time in my testing, engineering deliveries and professionalism.  A few live on no matter how long or short their time is.

 

Miss you! Gratitude and Respects!  

Browser Compatibility - What Problems Are You Witnessing In 2025?

 

One of my long standing work in Software Engineering is testing for Browser Compatibility.  But, is that a bigger problem as it was between 2000 to 2017? 

Today's browsers have to and adhere to the common guidelines and standards of W3C.  Likewise, the web development and artefacts [libraries, frameworks, language, etc.] used are expected to adhere the standards and guidelines.

In 2012, I layed out the evolving model of Test Architecture for Browser Compatibility.  The teams across Aditi Technologies did use this solution and it evolved gradually.  It is the 'go to' test solution and approach to test and automate for web application's browser compatibility, strategically.

Those were the days, where the browsers and web development did not adhere to standards and guidelines.  As a consequence, the web pages exhibited problems and unexpected [intermittent] behaviors on major browsers and its versions.

I understand and aware, that, the browser compatibility behavior can be a GUI difference to a functional blocker.  Further, it can expand to the web page's performance behavior to accessibility and security differences.  I have witnessed all this when testing for the web application and its browser compatibility, then.   

I cannot forget the versions of Internet Explorer crashing while another did not when using the web pages.  

Maybe, on reading this, you are thinking of me as an old tester.  Is it so?

2025 and Browser Compatibility

I'm curious to know and understand from you.  So, I ask this question to you.

Did you experience and report the browser compatibility behaviors recently?  If so, what is that?

Please do not share the project and tech details.  

Requesting you to share what behavior did you notice as part of the browser compatibility and which quality criteria of the web page is impacted.

I'm one ping away on Google Hangout and on an email.  Please do share!  This will help me to contribute back to the Software Engineering and Testing community.

Are We Not Innovating, Then?

 

This last Sunday, I met a friend.  In our conversation, he brought up a topic between him and his colleague.  

He said, there is no innovation happening in Software Engineering.  Instead, he see the apps development to cater business services to people.  That is, in other egineering industries there are innovation being done along with research and development.  But, he did not see anything happening in our Software Engineering and communities.

I asked him, "What makes you not to see the Hackathons [being projected] as an innovation initiative followed up with further research and development?"

He did not see the hackathons as a space for innovation.  His experience is, the organization hosts Hackathon for two or three days in a year.  

Further, he said, "We are asked to participate in the Hackathon and also to work on stories in parallel.  If the stories are not worked in these two or three days, it will be escalated.  And, the ideas and outcome of the hackathon are left as is.  Hardly one or two ideas are picked for a proof of concept work in the project."   

I feel, maybe, what he is saying make sense, as I have witnessed it.

Are We Not Innovating, Then?

I see, there are innovations happening in the Software Engineering.  But, these innovations are not something that common men can consume directly.  But, these innovations are consumed indirectly by the common men.

The innovations that I see and test are not B2C.  Sometimes, it is indirectly B2B via D2D.

Yes, D2D -- Developer to Developer.  I'm not sure if there exist a word Developer to Developer.  This is what I said to him -- D2D.  Maybe for this reason, the innovation and software engineering's problem solving and solutions do not come to the discussion and spotlight.

As an innovation byproduct in the software engineering, there are frameworks, libraries and artefacts developed by the developers of an org [and communities].  This is being consumed by the other organization's developers in their project.  As an outcome, there is a solution being built [using an innovation] and delivered by a business which is consumed by a common men.

Maintaining these frameworks, libraries and artefacts outside the payroll job time is a challenge for any developer.  But, some do it beating all the hurdles they experience.  There are challenges here when it comes to maintaining such projects by collaborating with software engineers from the communities.

Most of my research and development outcomes in the Test Engineering area are consumables of we developers and not the common men.  And, it is not known to all the  developers.  When I say developers, it includes, programmers, test engineers, DevOps and product teams.

To conclude here for now, might be the software project you are working on is also consuming an innovation that you are not aware of.  Talk to your programmers, test engineers and teams.

AMYQ: Approaching the Solution to Test Data Challenges of Shrini Kulkarni

 

In this post, I'm trying to reason in brief for the questions shared by Shrini Kulkarni in this AMYQ.  Here are the challenges/questions shared by Srini,

• #1 challenge - setting up data in upstream systems to suite test cases that need to be run. There is AUT and there are upstream systems. In a corp setup -- individual teams are setup for each application. Hence getting another team to set some data in other system often encounters lots of manual effort and red-tapism

• #2 Reserving test data created in AUT or upstream systems for specific team's use so that other teams do not change it.

My Understanding of These Challenges

1. AUT is in place and it has upstream systems.
2. There are multiple teams for each AUT in an org.
• Say teams A, B, and C for sake of learning here.
3. Team A has difficulty when wanting to create the Test Data in the space of Team B, and vice versa.
• The difficult for Team A can be as,
• Not permitted to create data
• No awareness and understanding of Team B's system
• Cannot make progress in testing unless there is data created for Team A
• The created Test Data by Team B is not shared to Team A for multiple reasons as data pollution and corruption which disturbs their test cycles
• And, more ...
4. How to reserve Test Data created in Upstream system for use of a specific team?
• How to make sure other team does not use it or edit it or delete it?

This is my understanding of Shrini's challenges.

Conway's Law and My Experiences

The Conway's Law says,

The architecture of a system will be determined by the communication and organization structures of the company.

Inverse of Conway's Law says,

The organizational structure of a company is determined by the architecture of its product.

The above stated both laws hold good for Microservices teams and the teams which consumes their services.  

I have experienced,

• Each microservices teams creating their own set of test data.
• These test data is not shared to any other team.
• The other teams are not allowed to create data in their space.
• No team is aware of what others are doing in tests and what they are using to test.
• The teams work in silos.

This leads to friction, aggression and unhealthy communications between teams.  Now, where is the possibility of having the Test Data in upstream system which can be consumed to run tests by every other teams?

Do you see the statements of Conway's Law and Inverse of Conway's Law here in how these teams are setup, orchestrated and communicates in building one product?

What's the Problem?

Here is my understanding of the Problem Statement from the challenges shared by Shrini,

How to setup Test Data in upstream system, to suite the test cases, that need to be run?  And, how to ensure Test Data created by one team is not modified by other teams?

If observed, the outcome described in previous section is not a technical problem.  

It is the collaboration and communication problem, that comes up in presumption -- other teams using one's test data it affects their team's work and delivery.

Yes, it can impact badly if the creation, editing and managing the test data is not done attentively by teams when everyone shares and consumes it.  So the respective team's engineering managers and directors show the resistance to create data in their team's space as it impacts their pipeline and delivery.

How I Solved It?

In the contexts where I work, I have different upstream systems to which I'm supposed to interact and get the data.  Then, use these data to test the service offered by the product.

But, creating test data in other team's space is not allowed!

There are multiple solutions that I approached with and solved this problem in different organizations.  The below said approach worked with most clients and so I share it here.  It is like a Design Pattern; I can use the structure of it in multiple teams to solve the similar problems.

I came up with an approach to create a suite having the endpoints of all these upstream systems.  And, I need not say how difficult and pain it was to get the endpoints and its details from teams.  It was a marathon circus of me to get it!

Here is how I approached the solution,

1. I understood my teams were comfortable with Postman.  
2. For this problem solving, I see Postman was simple and quicker than writing a automation project with libraries like RestAssured and request.
• Team can run the Postman Collection from their system in quick time.
3. I created an Test Data Inventory
• The inventory has the Test Data which the test teams engineered for their testing and automation
• These data is not just for functional testing; it had Test Data for security, performance and accessibility too.
4. I built the Postman Collection having the endpoints of these upstream systems.
• The collection is version maintained like any other code in the organization.
• The meaningful commits are being made and pushed, as and when the need comes up.
5. I crafted an environment file and wrote the scripts which places a variable having the stamp
• This stamp tells, it is a test data created by automation run for this version of regression cycle and from this team.
• The stamp is max of 10 characters and it is dynamic based on that run to avoid duplicate data.
• I said it is dynamic and not the random!
• This dynamic characters has meaning and an intent.
• Note, when I say dynamic it is created for that iteration of Test Data
6. These created test data are used by team eventually not touching the test data of other teams.

This let us move further with our tests and automation in the pipeline.   Note that, I have multiple upstream systems to which the AUT speaks.  Not disturbing them is a challenge!

I maintain the inventory of test data having versions of test data being crafted sprint-on-sprint.  We pull the test data of different versions from the inventory as and when it is needed for the intent of test and automation.

All that said, the team continues to work in silos with no much collaboration.  Who has to solve this?  Though I can solve this, my role and pay grade does not allow me to do so effectively.  I have solved within my teams and not to the organization level.  It is a engineering and culture problem which has to be addressed at the organization level.

To summarize, 

1. The test data creation and its inventory management having versions of test data is an Engineering culture of an organization.
• It has to be taken in consciously and help the teams move swiftly in building the resilient and usable systems.
2. Test Data and its engineering is a project within an engineering project.
• No wonder if any LLMs offers a business solution solely on Test Data in coming days!
• Test the data offered by such LLMs before consuming it.
3. Practice in the space of test data and testing the test data.
4. There is Data Coverage in the engineering like it has Test Coverage.
• What's your Data Coverage?

AMYQ: Ask Me Your Questions on Test Data -- Session 1

I made an opportunity for myself in this format -- Ask Me Your Questions (AMYQ).  I want to keep it a live interaction as much as possible and I chose a YouTube as an aid.  I'm experimenting it; I will improvise and upskill here it as I move ahead in this.

It is not a AMA.  It is AMYQ format with a topic which I come up listening to community.  In this format, I collaborate and interact with community listening to challenges and problems in their practice and work.  And, working on a solution approach for their context.

I asked the software engineering community for the questions around Test Data here.  I have received a few on LinkedIn and a couple of them in person.  We will be going through them.  

I will share my perspectives and approaches to deal with Test Data on Ask Me Your Questions on Test Data, while I listen to you.  Please join here.

Details of  this AMYQ Session -- 10th March 2025

• Title: Ask Me Your Questions on Test Data
• Date and Time: 10th March 2025, 8:30 PM IST
• Duration: 30 minutes + 10 minutes
• Interaction: Live
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/live/cKS71LgwPM0

Questions Received

From Shrini Kulkarni

1. #1 challenge - setting up data in upstream systems to suite test cases that need to be run. There is AUT and there are upstream systems. In a corp setup -- individual teams are setup for each application. Hence getting another team to set some data in other system often encounters lots of manual effort and red-tapism
2. #2 Reserving test data created in AUT or upstream systems for specific team's use so that other teams do not change it.

From Avanti Gada

1. Creating/finding data set to test features built on LLM's. How to test AI tools which were built using LLM's.
• The application are internal to organisation. To take generic example say there is college finder when student searches with certain inputs it looks at Internet and gets all possible options in results. How to ensure the data fetched by LLM are right

From Sukanya Santhanakrishnan

1. What one should keep in mind when the test data is confidential like passwords/person details? How should the system handle this in terms of security?
2. In the AI era, do we rely on LLM generated test data and how much can we believe those? What are the additional steps we need to take after getting LLM's data? 
3. What are the considerations when the applications handling large datasets under high memory usage? 
4. What are your go-to checklist when you start preparing test data?

When Does the Community Choose Not to Respond to Questions?

I read the testing, automation and test engineering related questions posted on the social media and web.  I try to understand the question, problem expressed and collaborate to assist.  I do keep 46 minutes in a day for this activity.  

Sometimes, it is hard to assist reading the question.  I feel like not giving up; but, then I do not see the communication happening actively from other end.

What Makes It Hard To Assist?

The questions asked,

• It will lack the context.
• It does not tell who is the person and what she or he is trying to accomplish.
• It will not have information on
• the environment.
• what is the challenge he or she is facing.
• what she or he tried so far.
• It will not have minimal data as
• screenshot, exception stack trace, the complete error message and details following it, data being used, code outline, and more details to the context.

The above are minimal data needed on removing any sensitive information.  Know and understand what is sensitive information for your context when you are sharing.

Then, what do the question will have?

• Most will have a phrase or a couple or three sentences of what they are doing and what is seen on the screen.  And, asking what to do for what is seen on the screen?

Why it is hard to assist with vague details?

People who want to assist won't have any context about you -- who you are, what you are doing, or why are you doing it that way.  They won't understand your purpose or what you are actually experiencing based on the limited and vague information in the questions.

Without clear details, it is hard to connect the dots or pinpoint the problem.  Instead, people who want to assists will be guessing, making assumptions, and probably considering multiple possibilities.  Is this a way to use the time in community?

When questions follow a similar pattern but vary in challenges and context, it becomes demotivating to decode them.  Over time, people will lose interest in reading unclear questions, leading to fewer responses and missed opportunities for meaningful discussions.

What's happening at other end?

People who want to collaborate and assist will take the time to read the question.  But, when a question is too vague to understand, they often give up.  And, they feel bad for doing so.  The question remains unanswered.

When a solution is provided, there's often no update on whether it worked or not.  Those who contributed keep checking back, only to find no response.  Is that fair to those who invested their time to help?  Would you feel good if you were in their position?

Remember, in the community one can't buy someone's time to listen or solve a problem.  It has to be earned!  And, it has to be earned every single time.

How to Frame and Post the Question?

There is no one excellent way of doing it.  Then, what should I do to post my questions?

1. Know the community.
2. Read through the questions shared earlier in that community.
3. Look at the questions that have found resolutions, acknowledged and accepted.
1. Observe how the question or problem experienced is described.
2. Look at the details shared and how it is shared.
3. Look at the context details shared and how it is shared.
4. Observe how the interactions and conversation is taken forward from the two sides.
1. Closely notice the words and how the energy is kept high in both ends and how each side is pushing for it.
2. Importantly, look at the time taken to respond from both ends.

I do not want to share an example or reference saying this is the way to do it.

You figure out for your problem and to its context.  Share the minimal information said above and ask for the help.  Consistently improvise on how you ask, share and describe the problem.

My Advise to a Software Test Engineer

I was discussing with a Software Test Engineer post meetup.  We two stayed back for a couple of hours conversing on various topics and how to approach the problems.  He was assisting a recent graduate to get started in Software Testing.  His question to me was, "What all should I share and where should I start?".

I ask the same question to myself when I sit back and observe my practice and journey.  That is, 

"Ravi, what is the one advise you give to your younger self when you are starting career and practice in Software Testing?"

That question of him resonated in me as I listened to him.  I said him, 

"I ask the same to myself. I align; I'm a beginner resetting and starting over everyday using the learning of till date.".

Note this; what I'm saying here it is my experience and learning.  I feel, it make sense to me in my contexts.  You evaluate it and take it to your context.  Nevertheless, I see it is sensible advise and it should be must in your practice the day you start to practice Software Testing & Engineering.

My Words and One Advise

This is a advise I give to younger myself who is starting the career in Software Testing & Engineering,

 "Practice programming!  This should be your day to day activity [practicing programming] to improve your testing skills.  It is critical and elemental to be a better Software Test Engineer.  Do not ignore it.  Embrace programming and leverage your testing."

Any other skills that you hear or said, you can apply them on your programming practice work.  Evaluate it.

For example, if you hear skills as questioning, thinking, critical thinking, lateral thinking, and whatever, apply them to the programming activity and the code you are writing.  Take help of mentors here.  Know the boundaries to set and unset as you progress here.

That said, do not be biased and get stuck to just programming alone. The programming should aid your testing practice and skills, and vice versa.

If I'm testing a software and the general [contextual] systems with which it associates, I should know how the software is being implemented, how it communicates, and manages.  This is essential and necessity for a Software Test Engineer.  This is a need!

Being away from programming, I will fall short in the ways I think of the tests and how I test.  The software that I'm testing is composed from the programming along with other general [contextual] systems integration [specific to the contexts].  If I cannot identify, learn, write and understand the composition of software, I have to think about my testing and question it.

For example, how would this blog post get saved and published when I publish this draft?  What goes behind and in front?  If I cannot see the layers here and understand them, I cannot test better.  Maybe, I can see them to an extent without programming skills.  But, the programming skills gives the different perspectives to the testing, automation and test engineering.  The advantages of these perspectives are unparallel and helps immensely when identifying and designing the context's priority and critical tests, and its samplings.  Hope this makes sense to you and tell how critical it is.

To end this post, I summarize it as,

• I do not have to practice programming in the scale for being a full time skilled programmer.. I practice programming to be a full time test engineer whose testing is sought after.  I stand here for today.
• Practice programming to engineer your testing better.
• Apply all other skills which you see as important to test the code that you are programming in your testing practice.
• If you are starting to practice Software Testing, start from programming and test your program.  In testing this programming of yours, apply all other skills which are said critical for testing better, and upskill them in parallel.

Caution! Know This Before You Prompt For Your Testing

My Fellow Test Engineers,

If you are using Gen AI and LLMs as an aid to do better work, yeah, we should be exploring it.  I have no second thoughts in it.

Are you giving anything bounded by NDA to Gen AI models and LLMs?

• Like a part of software requirement, video, an image, code or anything that hints what the system is?
• That is, is this part of your prompt text which you are giving to the Gen AI model(s) and other LLMs?  If so, do exercise the below questions:
1. Do my organization and its business see any threat and risk from me for doing so?
2. Does it violate the NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement)? If yes, how will I be impacted and prosecuted by the employer's business and organization?
3. Will I be terminated from my job or contract for doing this?
4. Will I have to face the legal consequences?

I tell you, for today's LLMs, it is sufficient to have gist of requirement or code or video or an image to isolate one's request. From there, it can monitor fairly better with additional anticipation.

My questions:

1. How would you trust the models behind?
2. Do you know how it is observing especially when you use your business identity to login and prompt?
3. Though you have customized the LLM's model and it is in within your environment, how do you know it is not connecting to its vendor environment and updating the gist?

Let us leverage the prompt engineering, Gen AI and associated LLMs. But, be aware and conscious of what we are giving out!

Also, be aware of what you tell to fellow test engineers. Not all Test Engineers or SDETs think of the consequences; instead just blindly mimic or follow what is being done or said to do by trying and using it.

Let us think about what we are passing to community by just saying to use prompts for --  to write test cases for this given requirement; read the given requirement and give a test design and strategy; review the code snippet and more.  Such loose and vague messages can be harmful if it is blindly followed!

By prompting the text and calling it out as prompt engineering, we might be giving out what we are not supposed to in the context of our employer's work. Caution!

Is Software Testing a Cost to Business?

How quick one gets to have the awareness of the cost and value in the trade, it will be of help.  I consistently exercise the below questions in my practice.

• What are the Values added from my work to the business?
• How do I benefit from this?
• What are the Values removed from my work to the business?
• What does it bring to me?
• Who is not getting benefited from the Values I'm adding and why?
• What are the loses and its impact?
• What are the benefits and gains we are losing?
• Who is getting benefitted from the Values I'm adding and why?
• What are the benefits and gains we are making?
• What are the Costs added from my work to the business?
• What are the impacts?
• How does it impact me?
• How does it benefit me?
• What are the Costs removed from my work to the business?
• How does it benefit me and what do I gain?
• How does it benefit the business and others?  What do they gain?
• Who are all experiencing the Costs from my work and why?
• What are the pains from these costs?
• Who are not having any Costs from my work and why?
• Do they need anything from my work and its value add?

This exercise will help me to know the expectations of stakeholders and business. I align myself to deliver the expectations as I exercise these questions.  

The cost and value from my software test engineering work will have impact and influences my growth with the benefits that I will make.

Is Software Testing a Cost to Business?

I witness the discussion which says testing is a cost in software engineering business.  But, I do not hear the same statement on development.  This made me to think, why?

Here are my understanding on thinking over it for now.

1. Software development is not about just programming.
1. When said development it includes every teams and their work.
2. Programming and Testing are parallel activities in the software engineering which helps each other.
3. If testing is a cost, then for sure, programming is also a cost!  It is an associated activity.
2. In business, every activity and investment on them is a cost in multiple ways.
1. These are evaluated costs and being taken for a purpose in expectation of returns.
3. Have I come across anyone saying Automation in Testing is a cost, like I hear for testing?
1. It is seen as investment and necessity. Why?
1. May be, because, in a belief if [once] automated, that is sufficient enough it goes on for itself without human intervention.
2. If this is the thought, do you think we are doing it wrong?
4. Have I seen the discussion and statements which concludes testing for performance and security is cost?
1. If yes, how?
2. If no, why these two are not seen as cost?
5. Serving and well maintained engineering system is a trade-off
1. I see, we engineers and business choose what to trade-off
1. This decision can be on logical and non-logical basis; but, there will be a trade-off
2. Each trade-off has costs and values
3. What should I trade-off in the software test engineering and why?
4. What should I trade-off in the software engineering that we are doing as a business?  Why?
6. When one is offered a offer letter from a business, there is a CTC mention.
1. CTC means Cost to Business
1. Programmer has a CTC
2. Tester has a CTC
3. Every others in different teams have a CTC including the CxOs
4. We all [and our job] are cost to a business, who can add value and get the high returns

To end for now, I learn, everything and anything business picks up is a cost.  Because, there is an investment on it.  If there is no investment, is there anything happening or progressing and changing?

I do not want to get into discussions which says software testing is a cost.  I see such discussion is lacking in understanding the software engineering and intrinsic for first.  Software Development is not all about programming; the programming is one small part of it.

There are different teams that work together in collaboration to develop and consistently delivering the usable software systems.  In this process, everything in software engineering business is an invested and evaluated cost in the interest of returns and values that are expected.

It is time to know and ask "What way of testing and its outcome is a cost?" than saying and listening to -- 'testing is a cost', which is nonsensical.  This holds good for any activity in software engineering.  

Any serving engineering marvel is a calculated and evaluated trade-off.